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mc_

2600Hz Employees
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Resource Library: Monster UI Apps for KAZOO

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Posts posted by mc_

  6. Porting important fixes from mod_kazoo to mod_erlang_event

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    For clarity: we leveraged mod_erlang_event at the start of the project. We wrote, from scratch, mod_kazoo to better handle our use cases.

    The main one was mod_erlang_event expected only one Erlang node to connect to the FreeSWITCH node; it was a happy bug in handling connections that allowed us to have multiple ecallmgrs connect to mod_erlang_event.

    But there are many performance and features in mod_kazoo that KAZOO utilizes that mod_erlang_event didn't provide.

    mod_erlang_event is also written (and probably not maintained anymore) by Andrew Thompson (aka Vagabond). I'm not surprised the code isn't working.

    In short, mod_erlang_event is not compatible with KAZOO installations - any use or issues with it can be taken up with Signalwire but not sure they're keen on maintaining it either.

  11. Kazoo Version 5 open source

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, krzykat said:

    @mc_ I have always thought a nice niche for OSS monetization is that on the low end there are folks that tinker, develop, maybe make a few bucks off the efforts.  But for those that are making any real money, they MUST help fund the development.  I mean how  would you count on something with your millions on VC if you didn't have skin in the game?  I mean, how can they do that and then what if there is a problem or if kazoo disappeared?  Like I have said to a few clients before "You want me to make money".  Cause if I don't, I fold, and then you have nothing.  I understand saving a buck, and for a small guy with say 100 extensions, they can't really justify a $5K - $20K / month expenditure.  But when they get big enough to have 10,000 extensions, then they better be helping on the develpment, and funding.  Finding that middle ground, I admit is difficult.  From what I've seen from other OSS projects are those that are making their serious money from it, realize they must pay maintenance contracts to keep their stuff working, and getting custom code done to supplement things.  Sometimes some limit how much is out with the OSS, and the other parts are commercial.  Then they get paid from the commerical as well as contracts.

    Agreed on having skin in the game, especially because we know they're using KAZOO as a core component of their main line of business. They're content to make a go of it alone though.

     

  12. Kazoo Version 5 open source

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    @Bitrate you missed it above - potential customers are using KAZOO, are not getting support contracts or custom development from us, are not submitting code or doc improvements. I can't get my team paid their salary based on potential customers who use KAZOO. These potential customers have millions in VC funding so its not a bootstrapped, garage-based startup that we're dealing with.

    Again, I totally hear you and wish we didn't have this tension between the commercial 2600Hz arm and the open source KAZOO arm.

    I will appeal to authority a bit here - I've been involved from the get-go, 2010. In that time, 2600Hz has paid me a salary to develop KAZOO, 90% of which is open source. I have maintained google groups, this forum, the docs site, IRC channel, community Slack channels, KAZOOCon, FreeSWITCH and KAZOO trainings, a bi-weekly hour-long community call, and more that I'm probably forgetting at the moment.

    So don't question mine or 2600Hz's commitment to the community.

    We've been out here for 13 years, making a go of it in OSS. We have community members here, haven't paid us a dollar, riding with us since the Whistle days. If folks fall off because we're not "open source" enough for them, go find another company or project that does it better! Bon chance to them.

    We are at an interesting juncture where large companies are using KAZOO without contributing, competing with our paying customers for sales. We're navigating it as best we can, both us who believe in OSS and the business side that wants to keep us employed and paid.

  13. Kazoo Version 5 open source

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    @BitrateI hear the frustration and I share it. However, I also think you overstate the community's contributions to KAZOO. Can you honestly quantify the impact of the community on KAZOO? This is a serious question because when I've looked at commits from non-2600Hz employees to KAZOO (from whistle 1.0 to KAZOO 4.3), Monster UI, and our doc repos, the disparity is glaring.

    Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate the community that does exist and contributes feedback and bug reports and I hope we get back to that sharing soon; however when businesses take KAZOO and make money off it and don't contribute (proliferate examples from mega corps on down) then its a harder task to justify the business side of keeping development open. We have costs and no VC funding so rely entirely on our paying customers to keep things moving.

    It's a whole debate across OSS, open core, alternative licensing, etc and I haven't seen any consensus on how to balance developing open source software and putting food on the table. Curious for all suggestions towards making OSS a sustainable way to do business?

  14. Kazoo Version 5 open source

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    I appreciate the discussion, but I think you all overestimate the "usefulness" of bug reports from the community and underestimate the effort we have to take to properly investigate the report.

    KAZOO is not closing; I will quit the company if that decision is made. I have been promised from C-level execs that what was open in v4 will be open again in v5. If that promise is reneged, my resignation will be close behind.

    So, I hear you all, I continue to advocate for opening sooner rather than later, there is lots going on behind the scenes, etc etc.

  18. Hola

    in Introductions

    Posted

    Welcome @synogeek! Glad to have you here.

    In many ways, KAZOO feels like a labor of love, built with good people. Appreciate the kind words! As always, constructive feedback and PRs are welcomed on improving the docs, source code (if Erlang is of interest), or feature set.

  20. Hello

    in Introductions

    Posted

    Welcome @Shailen!

    As discussed in IRC (more for future readers than you directly), KAZOO includes a make/erlang_version file to reference when building particular branches. For the 4.3 branch (current expected branch to use), OTP 19.,3 is recommended and expected to work. Versions outside of that are caveat emptor.

  21. Full Outbound Caller Privacy

    in Product Discussion

    Posted

    To Brian's point, so much has changed between 3.18 (Aug 2015 last update) and 4.3 that I don't think it's worth anyone else's time to figure it out for you, tbh.

    Depending on your size, I would consider standing up an independent 4.3 cluster and slowly move customers over vs upgrading from 3.18 at this point. And I would fetch the data from 3.18 via the API and send it to your 4.3 API versus copying databases over.

    In 4.x you can set privacy expectations on the endpoint (device or user) instead of having to modify every callflow. You might find a concept called "preflow" that would run before every callflow where you could insert the privacy action if you want (and if preflow exists in that version).

     

  22. Kazoo Version 5 open source

    in General OS Kazoo Questions

    Posted

    Not a lawyer so can't comment on that. I don't agree with your interpretation of this section. The 2600hz/kazoo repo contains the available source code; the kazoo5 repositories are not open source yet. The license (again IANAL) does not require those providing a service on top of the code to distribute their changes (I think only AGPL really compels that); 2600Hz provides the services to our customers so I don't think there's an obligation to provide the source, even to customers.

    I'm just as frustrated as any one else at how long 5.0 is taking to be released back to open source but I don't think the company is in breach.

    But I guess you can always engage a lawyer versed in open source licenses to figure it out for you and compel the company if so?

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