Kazoo Version 5 open source

[fmateo05]

 

44 minutes ago, RuhNet said:

To be honest I think these nitpicky complaints are exactly [part of] the reason v5 has been delayed --- it's impossible to please everyone, and all these statements like "YOU (2600Hz) should have latest Freeswitch", "YOU should fix this XYZ bug...", "YOU should support ABC, XYZ because I want it to make money for myself...", "YOU should have released v5 two years ago when it wasn't ready so you could put up with me complaining about it for the past two years" probably don't really give 2600Hz a warm feeling about the OSS community.

So why should 2600Hz release something when they know it's not ready, and it will only unleash a barrage of [free] help requests, criticism, and general bad feelings toward 2600Hz? Especially when the amount of help given back to 2600Hz by the community is somewhat limited.

To be clear---I use Open Source Kazoo, I want new features, I want fixes, I want all of it to be open source (Konami hehe). I've been chomping at the bit to have v5 as long as anyone else. But at the same time, I do understand their position, and I understand why the app store has been delayed so long---it's hard to make software not pirate-able, but at the same time not a nightmare to install and use and maintain. I do wish they would go ahead and release everything else, so we could begin to work with it, but I don't know all the ins and outs of v5 to know if that's doable without a great deal of effort.

So, everybody, just relax. :)  Unless of course you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and actually offer to pay for certain things to be fixed, or offer to fix (and contribute) certain things yourself. :-D

I don't think a fork is warranted at this time---forks are sometimes good things, but most people grossly underestimate the amount of work involved in maintaining a medium-large codebase. And unless something changes I really don't think our OS Kazoo community has enough high power developer talent to make a fork a real success, so any benefits I think would be minimal.

I'm hoping we'll hear good news concerning OS v5 around Kazoocon this year. If not, then I may begin to reconsider my position. But until then I'm just going to be patient and do the best I can with what we have now.

I saw the edit history.. Nevermind.. 

5 minutes ago, krzykat said:

@RuhNet   It's now been I think 3 years.  What do you think is a reasonable time period?  Also - people complaining about this and that .. its OSS, not freeware.  YOu have no expectations, and the beauty of OSS is that others can help (I know its not often , but it can still be helpful).  If nothing else, than having people let you know about bugs is a big help.

I understand the need to monetize (as I bet most people on this thread are monetizing it and making money or want to make money with Kazoo), but also understand and agree with the comments of "If you're going to close the source, just let people know".

I agree with this.. Just simply be clear, and then we understand. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by fmateo05 (see edit history)

[RuhNet]

Umm 2600Hz has been clear that they do intend to release v5 open source. They have never said anything to the contrary. 

Now technically they could change their mind or have been lying about it, but I don’t see any indication of either of those.

The time delay factor is of course frustrating, but that in itself I don’t believe is a solid sign of them backing out, and they have continued to maintain that v5 will indeed be released.

 

[fmateo05]

11 minutes ago, RuhNet said:

Umm 2600Hz has been clear that they do intend to release v5 open source. They have never said anything to the contrary. 

Now technically they could change their mind or have been lying about it, but I don’t see any indication of either of those.

The time delay factor is of course frustrating, but that in itself I don’t believe is a solid sign of them backing out, and they have continued to maintain that v5 will indeed be released.

 

Let them to take their time, in my case I did expose my thoughts about it, some of them frequently happen with other Open Source projects that tends to go in similar situations,  will not provide details as they are some on internet. 

In most cases my goal is  and has been to bring asterisk users to explore and migrate them to Kazoo/2600hz, have some success.  Some integrations made together with other componets, made the install go more efficient. 

 

[Chris Labonne]

@RuhNet - coming in hot and heavy there buddy! I'm just noting that the current release won't easily update because the old FreeSwitch repos have moved to SignalWire. Seems like a good place to start if we fork. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chris Labonne (see edit history)

[RuhNet]

20 minutes ago, Chris Labonne said:

@RuhNet - coming in hot and heavy there buddy! I'm just noting that the current release won't easily update because the old FreeSwitch repos have moved to SignalWire. Seems like a good place to start if we fork. 

Hehe I didn’t really mean to target you with that lol—it was only the handiest example (of many out there) to illustrate my point. 😁

And like I said, I’m just as frustrated and anxious as everyone else but at the same time I do feel respect for 2600Hz’s position. (Except for on Konami/Konami Pro and kazoo_db which I can’t make sense of why those are closed source. 😆)

[Menashe]

On 6/20/2023 at 11:38 PM, RuhNet said:

Hehe I didn’t really mean to target you with that lol—it was only the handiest example (of many out there) to illustrate my point. 😁

And like I said, I’m just as frustrated and anxious as everyone else but at the same time I do feel respect for 2600Hz’s position. (Except for on Konami/Konami Pro and kazoo_db which I can’t make sense of why those are closed source. 😆)

 

 

In my opinion, 2600Hz has all the rights to do what every they want with their project. 
Still, it will be appreciated to be more transparent about this project. Last year (2022), they said that they estimate the V5 will be released at the beginning of 2023. a long time passed until then, so we can get some hints about their attention to the project after all the git repo was not updated for a long time.

And yet, of course, I greatly respect 2600Hz for their great project. It's  not obvious.

[KNERD]

On 9/14/2023 at 12:07 PM, Menashe said:

In my opinion, 2600Hz has all the rights to do what every they want with their project. 
Still, it will be appreciated to be more transparent about this project. Last year (2022), they said that they estimate the V5 will be released at the beginning of 2023. a long time passed until then, so we can get some hints about their attention to the project after all the git repo was not updated for a long time.

And yet, of course, I greatly respect 2600Hz for their great project. It's  not obvious.

KazooCon is next month. Perhaps something will be announced then.

[RuhNet]

That’s what I’m hoping as well!

[krzykat]

Fingers crossed !!

[Matt]

I think the lack of communication is where the frustration comes from. If they no longer plan to release v5 then thats fine, it would just be good to see some communication about it.

[KNERD]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I think the lack of communication is where the frustration comes from. If they no longer plan to release v5 then thats fine, it would just be good to see some communication about it.

They  did mention version 5 would not be released until after their Market Place would be released. A year ago, they had a Talking Heads KazooCon where a demonstration of that store was given.

 

You can access eight video presentations from here:

 

https://www.kazoocon.com/ondemand?utm_campaign=Newsletters&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=218785049&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8lYZNEJJK3KtGt_UUc1iCniAtNZ5GB2aQ7i0SLDfwPp2OPvjcWYegPc8dzaGdN9QA6PxnK3Lrcf-bxVZ610BLKSobj2j_9jeOF7fZwUgx4oz2JyOE&utm_content=218785049&utm_source=hs_email&__hstc=&__hssc=&hsCtaTracking=ac1af466-5313-4120-b27c-5b36bb6b2f59|e7abadb0-b90b-4b8c-983c-498a8de80c7b

 

Strangely, all of the videos are UNLISTED. Not sure why one would do that, especially when trying to promote business or products.

[KNERD]

Perhaps this is the reason for the silence?

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ooma-acquires-2600hz-inc-leader-100000774.html

 

It seems Ooma is only a SaaS business. Is the end for Kazoo?

[Chris Labonne]

34 minutes ago, KNERD said:

Perhaps this is the reason for the silence?

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ooma-acquires-2600hz-inc-leader-100000774.html

 

It seems Ooma is only a SaaS business. Is the end for Kazoo?

They had a conference call about this today. 

https://investors.ooma.com/news-events/events-presentation

I would hope there is news about Kazoo 5 open source this week with KazooCon happening. 

[Mooseable]

Ooma built their solution on 2600hz open source. They also acquired OnSiP

On the investors call;

They see 2600hz as the solution for the future. They want to invest more into development of the platform core and applications.

There are significant savings in development for Ooma through the acquisition (2M/year).

The recognize the revenue model of 2600hz, and list the open source market as an opportunity, though how was not discussed.
They also mentioned that the GP% of 2600hz is lower than Ooma, and they hope to increase it to match Ooma's ~60% GP within 6 months (or at least EBIT positive)
When asked about the developer community, its size and opportunities there, they mentioned that there "is a community" but was not really elaborated on.
The acquisition is largely around the technology stack and the operational benefits it brings, control over the roadmap, new opportunities to reach large carriers, and not just the existing customer base.

in closing remarks, it was said by Eric Stang that they are committed to the 2600hz community and the open source version

[mc_]

All indications are that marketplace means open sourced 5.x from discussions I've had. On the technical side, we've demo'd working marketplace integration with clusters. The CPaaS team presented at Kazoocon and the roadmap sounds like a rollout of select partners listing their existing apps on the marketplace and select partners participating in purchasing/delivering apps via marketplace to their clusters is next.

Q2 2024 was listed as possible general availability of marketplace to the broader community which should trigger opening access back up to KAZOO repos related to open source KAZOO apps.

Its obviously been a whirlwind as much of the company found out about the acquisition at Kazoocon and we're just returning home to process, get onboarded into Ooma, etc. But I am encouraged by discussions that open source does remain on the roadmap and, with the bigger resources of Ooma coming to bear on all aspects of KAZOO and 2600Hz's goals, I'm personally excited to continue building KAZOO and the open-source community around it.

[Mooseable]

I'm eagerly looking forward to it. It's my favorite project. I'd love to host my own cluster like I do, but just license the apps. It would then make financial sense for us being that we are so small.

Biggest thing is to get off older versions of Linux :/

[Matt]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:16 PM, Mooseable said:

I'm eagerly looking forward to it. It's my favorite project. I'd love to host my own cluster like I do, but just license the apps. It would then make financial sense for us being that we are so small.

Your definately not the only one. 

[bpbp]

Looking forward to both the new version and the marketplace. Happy to pay for apps for our customers.

[fmateo05]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:35 AM, KNERD said:

They  did mention version 5 would not be released until after their Market Place would be released. A year ago, they had a Talking Heads KazooCon where a demonstration of that store was given.

 

You can access eight video presentations from here:

 

https://www.kazoocon.com/ondemand?utm_campaign=Newsletters&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=218785049&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8lYZNEJJK3KtGt_UUc1iCniAtNZ5GB2aQ7i0SLDfwPp2OPvjcWYegPc8dzaGdN9QA6PxnK3Lrcf-bxVZ610BLKSobj2j_9jeOF7fZwUgx4oz2JyOE&utm_content=218785049&utm_source=hs_email&__hstc=&__hssc=&hsCtaTracking=ac1af466-5313-4120-b27c-5b36bb6b2f59|e7abadb0-b90b-4b8c-983c-498a8de80c7b

 

Strangely, all of the videos are UNLISTED. Not sure why one would do that, especially when trying to promote business or products.

The hyperlink is giving 404 error. 

[KNERD]

The entire site is gone. It seems they are trying their best to kill off the 2600Hz / Kazoo brand. It's not a joke. All the KazooCon videos are all "unlisted" on YouTube, and that is why I referenced the site instead of all the videos shown on there.  Why else would they keep all the videos unlisted, and kill the whole site?

 

Or, it could be the site was compromised?

Edited March 11 by KNERD (see edit history)

[mc_]

Checking on the site, shouldn't be down. Thanks for the alert

[KNERD]

Looks like someone deleted the whole site

[mc_]

The situation was that marketing was done with Kazoocon and we didn't have official word that there'd be a 2024 Kazoocon, so they decommissioned the site.

Word is, there will be a 2024 Kazoocon, so the site should be re-instated in the next day or two (whenever our ops team can turn it back up).

[Gagan]

Is kazoo 5 opensource coming? In past years many people have left kazoo and moved to other options in market.

its very frustrating with no clear news..

[mc_]

Yes, Ooma is committed to opening 5.x but there's bureaucracy to navigate while we are still merging infrastructure and teams after the acquisition.

I have tentative targets of October for that to happen. If anything changes, I'll let folks know but I continue to be assured that this is happening.