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net neutrality: What it means for us?


Tuly
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This is not a political form and please do not bring up any political opinions but as a matter of fact, I would like to get the community's opinion, would  repealing Net Neutrality hurt us small local Voip providers?

What would be the chances of Internet providers throttling SIP traffic, Or even blocking SIP traffic only if you pay more money, because they want you to use their own phones solution? 

There may be a lot of fear mongering, but for those who have an informed opinion I would like to know what is true and what is not true,

 

Thank you!

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If you're providing video services I think there is cause for concern. I don't think you have much to fear on VoIP, even hosted. Hosted is using port 7000, it's going to look like random internet traffic. The voice packets are so small, I don't think there is a reason to be concerned. I think the Netflix and the likes have cause for concern. The larger companies care more about media then they do voice. If you're delivering voice through an ATA, or an Adtran TA9xx you may want to change the ports being used for voice traffic to mirror what hosted is using by default. 

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3 minutes ago, Bobby Camisa said:

If you're providing video services I think there is cause for concern. I don't think you have much to fear on VoIP, even hosted. Hosted is using port 7000, it's going to look like random internet traffic. The voice packets are so small, I don't think there is a reason to be concerned. I think the Netflix and the likes have cause for concern. The larger companies care more about media then they do voice. If you're delivering voice through an ATA, or an Adtran TA9xx you may want to change the ports being used for voice traffic to mirror what hosted is using by default. 

I thought people have already been able to prove that Comcast is de-prioritizing SIP traffic in some places though?

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I think it could be the death of VoIP as we know it.  I am pretty sure Comcast already throttles VoIP traffic in some locations depending on how busy the internet is.  At least for residential customers.  They never admit it and I don't think their support people even know about it.  

They won't even bother asking for payment for a faster lane or anything like that because it competes directly with their services.  So I think VoIP will be the worst case scenario when net neutrality goes away.

Edited by amn (see edit history)
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On 11/22/2017 at 7:27 AM, Bobby Camisa said:

If you're providing video services I think there is cause for concern. I don't think you have much to fear on VoIP, even hosted. Hosted is using port 7000, it's going to look like random internet traffic. The voice packets are so small, I don't think there is a reason to be concerned. I think the Netflix and the likes have cause for concern. The larger companies care more about media then they do voice. If you're delivering voice through an ATA, or an Adtran TA9xx you may want to change the ports being used for voice traffic to mirror what hosted is using by default. 

Pretty sure most ISPs can do deep packet inspection.  So they can determine the type of traffic without looking at ports.  It would also be trivial to block or slow down traffic to certain IP's. So they could very easily block or de-prioritize all of 2600hz's hosted VoIP traffic, for example.  

The only possible workaround I can see is using VPN's. That comes with its own headaches and will degrade quality.  ISP's can target those as well just like Netflix and other companies currently do.

If you want to know more about what they can do, take a look at products they already own.
https://www.sandvine.com/

 

Edited by amn (see edit history)
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34 minutes ago, amn said:

I think it could be the death of VoIP as we know it.  I am pretty sure Comcast already throttles VoIP traffic in some locations depending on how busy the internet is.  At least for residential customers.  They never admit it and I don't think their support people even know about it.  

They won't even bother asking for payment for a faster lane or anything like that because it competes directly with their services.  So I think VoIP will be the worst case scenario when net neutrality goes away.

So When are we going on unemployment?  Darren You want to sell the company while it's still last for a few bucks? 

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On 11/22/2017 at 8:04 AM, Karl Stallknecht said:

Personally it scares the hell out of me for the reasons you mention. Comcast, Verizon, and Cox (the three major players in this market) all have competing Hosted VoIP products. So the fact that they could legally block our SIP traffic to force people to use their own Hosted VoIP products would be a disaster.

I don't think this statement could be any more true..

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On 11/22/2017 at 10:27 AM, Bobby Camisa said:

If you're providing video services I think there is cause for concern. I don't think you have much to fear on VoIP, even hosted. Hosted is using port 7000, it's going to look like random internet traffic. The voice packets are so small, I don't think there is a reason to be concerned. I think the Netflix and the likes have cause for concern. The larger companies care more about media then they do voice. If you're delivering voice through an ATA, or an Adtran TA9xx you may want to change the ports being used for voice traffic to mirror what hosted is using by default. 

I don't think it is a matter of how much bandwidth you are using (obviously if you are big as Netflix then it does matter), but it is about money. They can block all VoIP and harvest the monopoly on the phone service in addition to the cable and internet they already have.

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I'm trying to be optimistic. The way these companies are moving, they are more concerned about delivering media content then they are voice. Verizon and Comcast are trying to purchase assets from Twenty-First Century Fox inc. Follow the link below, there is a blurb about it there.  I believe they see the future as media companies. I don't think they care much about VoIP. I think the biggest losers are NetFlix, HULU, YouTube, Google, and companies of the like. These companies also have the capital to ride the "fast lanes."  I honestly have no idea what's going to happen. I do know there are people that are allot smarter than me that will figure out a work around to whatever the ISP's intend to do. I'm also sure when they figure it out, it will spread like wild fire. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/telecom-stock-roundup-fcc-plans-192107893.html

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On 11/29/2017 at 6:31 AM, Bobby Camisa said:

I'm trying to be optimistic. The way these companies are moving, they are more concerned about delivering media content then they are voice. Verizon and Comcast are trying to purchase assets from Twenty-First Century Fox inc. Follow the link below, there is a blurb about it there.  I believe they see the future as media companies. I don't think they care much about VoIP. I think the biggest losers are NetFlix, HULU, YouTube, Google, and companies of the like. These companies also have the capital to ride the "fast lanes."  I honestly have no idea what's going to happen. I do know there are people that are allot smarter than me that will figure out a work around to whatever the ISP's intend to do. I'm also sure when they figure it out, it will spread like wild fire. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/telecom-stock-roundup-fcc-plans-192107893.html

Verizon is a phone company.  Comcast is also now a phone company.  I think it's pretty safe to say that a phone company is going to want to target VoIP.

I might be in favor of getting rid of neutrality rules if telecoms agreed to stop defending their monopolies.  That is never going to happen.  They have fought Google every step of the way during the rollout of Google Fiber.  Sounds like Google has basically given up now.  

Edited by amn (see edit history)
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  • 2 weeks later...
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? Is this where Customer Site -> IPSEC Tunnel -> Hosted Cluster,  comes into play? 

It works with the reigning cable provider in Chicago. They have been doing this slow lane stuff for the past 5+ years with no competition. Even SDWAN doesn't help because very few places have 2 or more competing ISPs that can offer similar services. How can you route around a misbehaving ISP when they are the only business in town?

I know it sounds fairy tale-ish but at some point the IoT and IPv6 should be able to create enough of a mesh network through devices like cars, coffee makers and drones that the idea of ISPs might only exist in rural areas. It would however mean that everyone reserves a segment of their bandwidth for external traffic. There is that whole trust issue again...

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