Kazoo Version 5 open source

[Menashe]

Does version 5.X is open sourced? 

[mc_]

Not currently. We've rolled 5.0 out to our hosted platform and select customers to iron out the technical challenges with 4.3->5.0 upgrades. The app exchange is in active development, which I believe is the last component to the release of the open-source components of KAZOO.

[Menashe]

Does it means that the open source project is not longer will be available?

Is there any plan to release the version 5.X under open source?

[mc_]

The plan is to re-open-source all the applications and core that 4.3 currently has (so apps like Crossbar, Teletype, Ecallmgr, etc).

One lesson from the 3.22->4.0 upgrade we learned was people will try the new stuff before its officially ready, encounter issues and complain, and revert back to 3.22.

The other complaint is that we want to address is from open-source folks wanting to purchase our closed-source apps (like our call center app qubicle). Due to the nature of how the Erlang VM works, this isn't really do-able via "rpm install" methods.

So we've taken more time to develop 5.0 behind the scenes so folks don't start using it and lose confidence before it even has a chance. We've been upgrading our clusters with it to iron out upgrade-related bugs, accidental backwards incompatibilities, and the like. Concurrent with all this is the app exchange and a mechanism to deliver closed-source apps like qubicle to open-source clusters.

 

[bpbp]

That's great, we're interested in purchasing apps for advanced features but remaining on the open source release. I was surprised we had to go full "Global Infrastructure" to access those apps after speaking to the sales guys.

Thanks for an amazing project!

[mc_]

Yeah we currently have to deploy those apps to trusted environments to prevent piracy. The app exchange will include a distribution mechanism to handle this better.

[Bitrate]

Greetings and thank you for making such a great open source project!

We're also using the open source version and are interested in purchasing apps from you guys.  Whats going on with this and the open source 5.0 release? Also, whats the timeframe on the 4.3 re-release with all the apps? 

[krzykat]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:28 PM, Bitrate said:

Greetings and thank you for making such a great open source project!

We're also using the open source version and are interested in purchasing apps from you guys.  Whats going on with this and the open source 5.0 release? Also, whats the timeframe on the 4.3 re-release with all the apps? 

Great questions

[mc_]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:28 PM, Bitrate said:

Greetings and thank you for making such a great open source project!

We're also using the open source version and are interested in purchasing apps from you guys.  Whats going on with this and the open source 5.0 release? Also, whats the timeframe on the 4.3 re-release with all the apps? 

4.3 remains open. Aside from high priority bug fixes and such, that branch is "done". So the latest 4.3 RPMs represent the end of the line for that development.

For 5.0 + purchasing private apps, there should be annoucements at this year's virtual KAZOOCon. We're anxious to get 5.0 back into public repos but want to make sure as many issues are ironed out before doing so.

[krzykat]

4 hours ago, mc_ said:

We're anxious to get 5.0 back into public repos but want to make sure as many issues are ironed out before doing so.

Any guesstimate on an ETA?  I recall having this same conversation over a year ago.  Is it really going to get released?

[mc_]

I can't answer an ETA as its outside my purview; I can only say that I'm very annoyingly asking the same questions internally. I have assurances that code/applications in 4.3 will resume their open status in 5.x when we're given the go-ahead.

[krzykat]

Glad to hear it.  Can't wait.

[extremerotary]

Good afternoon,

Any update on the 5.0 or 5.1 releases? Certain applications are available in the staging repository, but not all of them so there are many dependency issues when attempting to upgrade from 4.3 to 5.0 or 5.1.

[zaben]

Hey @mc_

With the current license of the kazoo repository, can we please get the code changes for 5.x (even if not on master, to a dedicated branch) published to the main repository.
At this time as changes are being made to the core code base, without publishing changes, this is a breach of the Mozilla Public License Version 2.0 License which requires:

3. Responsibilities
-------------------

3.1. Distribution of Source Form

All distribution of Covered Software in Source Code Form, including any
Modifications that You create or to which You contribute, must be under
the terms of this License. You must inform recipients that the Source
Code Form of the Covered Software is governed by the terms of this
License, and how they can obtain a copy of this License. You may not
attempt to alter or restrict the recipients' rights in the Source Code
Form.

cc: @DanH

[mc_]

Not a lawyer so can't comment on that. I don't agree with your interpretation of this section. The 2600hz/kazoo repo contains the available source code; the kazoo5 repositories are not open source yet. The license (again IANAL) does not require those providing a service on top of the code to distribute their changes (I think only AGPL really compels that); 2600Hz provides the services to our customers so I don't think there's an obligation to provide the source, even to customers.

I'm just as frustrated as any one else at how long 5.0 is taking to be released back to open source but I don't think the company is in breach.

But I guess you can always engage a lawyer versed in open source licenses to figure it out for you and compel the company if so?

[krzykat]

@mc_  I tend to agree with your legal interpretation (I'm no lawyer either though).  I certainly do hope that 2600hz does release it though.  I've been working on some projects that would integrate with it that I think would add some synergy, but until its released, I'll have no idea.  Meanwhile, I play with 4.3.  Fingers crossed for 5.x OSS

[D4M14N]

Sigh.

Ive been waiting years to push our Kazoo to production waiting for 5.0 and the app exchange(Seriously, I think I started the evaluation of Kazoo around 2020). But Zack you are wrong here. The MPL requires distribution of the software have source code also released, but Kazoo has not distributed anything publicly of 5, so there is no need for code to be distributed yet. Your interpretation of the license would require you to push every edit, revision, commit, keystroke, etc to be made public. 

The only people who could possibly have a case for arguing for access to the source code would be people who have paid for Global Infrastructure, which given how much it costs, they probably do have access to the code.

 

What would really be helpful though, other than even a rough quater or even year estimate for release of 5, is an understanding of the upgrade from 4.3 to 5. How much effort will the upgrade be? Should we just push 4.3 into prod because the process to upgrade to 5.x will take only a few hours? Or is it better to wait a few more months and deploy straight to 5?

[Chris Labonne]

My main concern is the change of FreeSWITCH repos to SignalWire. I don't blame SignalWire for making this move, I was able to attain a Personal Access Token from them with no fuss. But the current 4.3 packages are looking for FreeSwitch repos which have moved and require this PAT to access them.

So either we just migrate to 5.x open source or we fix 4.3 open source. I'm game for either and I'm volunteering to get my hands dirty to do this 4.3 fix. 

Has anyone come up with a sure-fire hack to get around the FreeSwitch/SignalWire repo issues on 4.3?

[Mooseable]

Do we even know if we will get a new version in time so we can get off Centos7 before it hits EOL?

[krzykat]

I don't think I've seen a roadmap for 5.x OSS release.  Would be nice if they did, because I assume there would be some community assistance in debugging and features.  I've got one of my guys that I've asked to start learning Erlang so that we can assist when that day comes.

[KNERD]

11 minutes ago, krzykat said:

I don't think I've seen a roadmap for 5.x OSS release.  Would be nice if they did, because I assume there would be some community assistance in debugging and features.  I've got one of my guys that I've asked to start learning Erlang so that we can assist when that day comes.

Because there is no roadmap. They indicated 3+ years ago that they would release a app market before they would release Kazoo 5. That app market has never come to fruition.  I don't think there any more plans on Open Source. Even their Quaterly News report stopped over a  year ago.

[krzykat]

34 minutes ago, KNERD said:

Because there is no roadmap. They indicated 3+ years ago that they would release a app market before they would release Kazoo 5. That app market has never come to fruition.  I don't think there any more plans on Open Source. Even their Quaterly News report stopped over a  year ago.

If that is the case, and I sincereley hope its not, then I think someone from 2600Hz / Kazoo should say that so that people that are on the fence either using 4.3 and awaiting 5.x or those that are just waiting for it to begin with to make a decision on what direction to go can make an informed decision.  It was originally stated that 5.x would be OSS, so if the powers that be have changed their decision on that, please let us know.

[Chris Labonne]

@mc_ Appreciate you asking and following up persistently. We do appreciate this project and all of the work that was freely given to the community. Still can't help feeling antsy as we thought the release of 5.x would have come a lot sooner. Just as important as the actual release is setting the expectation of when it will be released. I for one don't want my superiors questioning whether we should continue with Kazoo vs FreePBX. I'm sure you understand.

[Mooseable]

I also get why they don't want to release v5 as per a previous statement that people tend to "jump right to it" without testing themselves, then probably cause a bunch of complaints/support requests.

But if we are anywhere near an open-source release, I would love if some of us could gain access to or sign up for the v5 open-source release for testing.

But as @Chris Labonne stated, we are in that process of deciding to stick with Kazoo or not. And I'd love to do another Kazoo Community Training video with the updated v5. I've kinda held off creating anything as I don't want it to be outdated.

[krzykat]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:11 AM, Mooseable said:

I also get why they don't want to release v5 as per a previous statement that people tend to "jump right to it" without testing themselves, then probably cause a bunch of complaints/support requests.

That's actually the beauty of OSS.  You get to release even alpha or beta software, and get help from the community on any potential issues or bugs and they actually help bring the product to market faster.

There's a reason why many companies have a strategy of different release versions and use of nightlies.